Better adjusting training to boundary conditions

General
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I’m now using a.ai for this season start. The prescription is too hard. I need to convince my AI coach to better adjust to my life and the manual workouts in the calendar. The coach knows that I am well above 50 y.

Now, in my cycling plan I have fixed a ~35 min recovery run on Mondays and a 2 h (hard) resistance strength session, which is really the most important session of all during the week [1]. I gave Sunday as long-ride opportunity.

The sessions on Monday and Saturday are honored. Sundays are quite hard following the strengths work on Saturday, but if I do find sufficient time doable. However, the AI coach schedules (at least) 3 additional hard sessions Tuesday to Friday, typically HIIT (for example 6 x 9 x 30/30), K3 (3 x 10+ min SST @ <60 rpm) and threshold (2 x 6 x 4’ just above threshold); one of them, mostly threshold, is on Friday. A fourth workout in these days is typically recover/Z2. I should also do some basic resistance strength training on Wednesdays, but currently don’t find time:-(

While these three hard sessions in 4 days are manageable (well in good weeks) as such, albeit barely, they are clearly not the right preparation for the most important high-intensity workout – strength on Saturday…

Thus, right now I am back to self coaching and adjusting the plan by myself.

How can I convince the AI coach to provide sufficient rest for the workouts themselves and especially before the Saturday strengths sessions?

One other, secondary, point is on the 30/30s. While the coach tells me I should improve VO2max – and it is obvious that I do need to improve performance at high intensities, partly for the muscular issues/weakness – I do not manage to get my HR into VO2max with the 30/30s. I now adjust it manually to do 5 x 3” 115 % so I get some HR-TiZ > 0.9 VO2max. But I would assume/expect the AI coach to figure that out herself…

[1] My performance, especially. in the high-power end, is very clearly still limited by muscular deficits in one leg from an accident, and multiple operations over 1,5y until a couple of years ago.

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I have the same issues as a 69 y/o rower. It seems that my internal indicators (hrv,rhr, etc) have the capacity for heavier training but my muscular skeletal systems cannot sustain the load and I have injured my back, hips, and shoulders when I tried to achieve the proposed volume. Ultimately, my human coach had to write my plan using a.ai data but her wisdom as Masters coach.

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I was following the target watts set by my AI coach during the VO2max session, but my heart rate stayed around 172. It felt like the intensity was too low, considering my lactate threshold heart rate is 181.

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I don’t do Watts for 30/30s according to prescription but to feel (RPE). AFAICT this is “common knowledge” for these short-on-off intervals.

Moreover the prescription is a broad range.

In fact, I was well in the upper half of the prescribed range, and more is limited by muscular limits/doability.

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Hey,
HR can be affected by many factors and should not be blindly followed when doing HIIT sessions. External output (W) in combination with RPE is the best way to execute your HIIt let sessions.
Also be sure to calibrate your thresholds by doing the Power Profile tests.

Best, MJ

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Hey :waving_hand:t2:

Great observations here. A lot of individual cases here but I see one common thing here. Muscular strength limitations, and how it affects recovery, and training adaptations.
If prescribed targets for HIIT feel too hard, they probably are. With experienced cyclist or rowers like you @joku and @GavKerr your capacity to hold high power outputs are a clear indicator of well developed aerobic system. When you move on to short-duration higher-power high intensity domain; sounds like your limited strength (muscular strength) is affecting your ability.
You are doing the correct thing here to adapt your plan and focusing on strength. I am not sure if you are talking about strength as in lifting weights in a gym, or strength endurance on the bike, but I assume you are improving your strength with weight lifting. Which is awesome and exactly what you should be doing at 50+ … in my opinion at least.
Now, here’s the limitation though.
Strength training induces a great neuromuscular load, which we don’t have a good measure of. Yes, you can track heart rate, but the true physiological load on your body is much higher than what the load measured by heart rate. In terms of how athletica “sees” it: it is a low load, and may (and sounds like it is in your case @joku ) add hard sessions around it. Not ideal but that is the limitation at the moment. You just need to evaluate how long it truly takes for you to recover from the strength session and adjust your other training accordingly. Your aerobic system may be ready to go, but your muscles are sore and neuromuscular fatigue can linger longer.
I would definitely have a low intensity bike the day after a heavy two hour strength session. Maybe just an easy one and not too long.

Doing HIIT session by feel would be a good strategy, especially considering you may be carrying some fatigue going into the session from strength training.

One strategy you could try on a little bit easier strength day is to reduce the length of HIIT sessions and do them immediately after your lifting. Strength would act as a primer for the hiit. Two sets of 5-8x30/30 could be just enough to stimulate VO2max. I would start with one set of 5x30/30. A big neuromuscular load here so be mindful of recovery. :mending_heart: this way you can make one day a really hard one and then sandwich it with easier aerobic days.

You’ll see your HIIT targets feel much easier to achieve when you work on your strength and paying attention to proper recovery for a while. I’m excited to see how hard you can hit those HIIT sessions, so keep me posted.

MJ

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Thank you for your thoughtful response, MJ. One tool I have found that does a good job of integrating strength training, mobility, and endurance training is Hybrd. They might be a good partner app with athletics.

Gav

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I had a quick glance at HYBRD but don’t see how exactly they measure neuromuscular load other than via external secs x reps x kgs calculations, which is a rough estimation on external load not internal neuromuscular load.

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Well, I typically do the prescribed K3 workouts from atheltica.ai… but I was indeed referring to resistance-strength training with “significant” weights, currently in a max-strength/3-6 reps block – which is not the typical 50+ keep-your-muscles mode but I will get back there, and more load on the bike, in due course:-o)

One funny issue is, in fact, that athletica sends these planned workouts to i.icu with a huge predicted load, IIRC three-digit numbers for TSS. But of course a HR-based (TRIMP) load might be 35.

Btw., i.icu uses a different load for fatique/ATL (full load) for fitness/CTL (fractional load, e.g., 1/4). But all these numbers do obviously not reflect the actual non-cardio load of the strength work…

Well, by experience I typically do my extensive gym day on Saturdays and then a group ride plus extra Z2 (for “long ride”) on Sundays; will do again when the current snow is gone from the roads… That (Saturday pre-load) makes the group ride even harder, but, well, if the young guys spit me out at the back I start Z2 earlier😉 The problem is the mostly-prescribed hard workout on Friday (from atheltica.ai).

That’s a good suggestion but in my current situation does not work – I am home from the gym too late… But I might use that approach to get a second short gym-day in in due course; I would then probably do gym in the morning and HIIT in the evening? Or maybe I could really manage gym in the evening and HIIT right after (at home), although it would get late… but I have to see how to, and should really, get in such day in later this winter and on.

My current plan is to limit HIIT (and MIT) to Tue. & Thu. plus the big gym day on Sat. Monday is recovery/nearly rest, Wed. and Fri. are easy/Z2, Sunday is long ride, including erratic “race like” all-zones junk. Maybe I could even do some moderate K3 work on Wed… but with the typically prescribed 30/30 on Tue., K3 on Wed. and then trying to do threshold intervals on Thursday (which are mostly prescribed for Friday, but that day I need to ease up, vide supra) gets hard.
I could try to do the K3 work early Saturday, approx. 8 hours before strength… Not optimal, but possibly an idea to try. Any opinion on this?

PS: And I hade hoped that I could have explained this to the (new) AI coach aka “please keep Friday’s ahead of my Saturday strength training easy”… but that’s probably quite an ask😉

Maybe I should simply state Friday as a “rest day” and do/plan easy rides myself nevertheless?