Since the training plans are pretty generic in terms of race types, are there suggestions for incorporating specific workouts that better match the type of races I’m doing? Gravel racing with long sustained climbs and super steep punchy single track climbs doesn’t really fit into either an XC MTB or All Day Road race in my mind…
Not sure I entirely agree but happy to be proven otherwise. I’m assuming you’ve explored the Workout Wizard options @mtnphotog ? Your thoughts @SimpleEnduranceCoach ?
Hi @mtnphotog, I generally use the all day road race for my gravel events and those of my athletes. Athletica uses the time I have to give me a variety of workouts, including long rides. I do change up the Athletica workouts sometimes, especially adding in longer aerobic endurance days when I have the time. In the Build phase, I get threshold workouts to mimic the long climbs, strength endurance for bigger gear work on the tough gravel, and the 30/30s to hit the hills.
So I’d try the All Around Single Day Event for your gravel races.
Let me know if that helps and if you have more questions.
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Okay, thanks. So you would train your athletes doing a Gran Fondo with 1500 feet of climbing the same way you would train someone doing a 55 mile 6,800 foot of climbing with a couple of 7 mile plus climbs?
Yes - not too differently in fact. I found this strange also when I entered the New Zealand Olympic Triathlon program. I asked the same question to the experience Olympic coaches. “So you would train your athletes doing Ironman the same way you would someone doing an Olympic distance triathlon?”. The reply: “not too differently in fact”.
Why?
Because from an engine building standpoint the principles are the same. You’re aiming to optimize or lift the capacity of the aerobic energy system for either your Gran Fondo or Gravel race. Athletica (built of course on the HIIT Science principles) delivers consistent blends of sessions that work towards the race specific demands of both using
- Low cadence strength endurance session (arguably more specific to the Gravel ride - emphasize)
- Short interval VO2max sessions (enhance cardiac output and fatigue resistance of larger motor units)
- Race pace efforts (race specific for both; simulates 7 mile climb)
- Aerobic development (fat burning and fatigue resistance)
The only key tweak I would do personally is, like with the XCO MTB, ensure you have race specific terrain sessions if you can get them. I.e., for your long rides, hit some gravel with hills if you have it; for SE session, again try to do these on gravel. Otherwise, for me, you have all the pieces of the puzzle to develop your capacity. But please let me know if you feel something is missing.
@SimpleEnduranceCoach we should probably work on a Gravel specific plan as the popularity grows.
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That’s exactly how I would handle it as well. Make sure you get the some climbing in during some of the long rides. For example, several of my athletes and I are training for gravel nationals in the states in September. We’re preparing with a combination of 30/30s, longer threshold intervals, tempo strength endurance rides, and lots of long aerobic endurance.
And yes, @Prof, we could use a gravel specific program. The only thing I’d change is getting some longer miles with some tempo work. But that is dependent on the athlete’s available time.
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Awesome. Thanks for the explanation! Based on your explanation, you could probably save yourself some grief just by duplicating the plans and giving them different names that address peoples different goals just because it gives us the feeling that we are following a plan designed for what we are doing…. 
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If you reduce the number of days availability, but keep weekly hours availability the same, you’ll also see sessions get combined. I saw 5 hour aerobic development rides with a total of 2 hours tempo in them.
As for hills I do 30/30s and threshold on hills outside anyway. For hilly rides I find the fatigue resistance is what counts later on. It’s not what you can do when fresh, but after many many hills.
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That is a nice option to remember…
That point piggybacks nicely on a presentation I just watched from my colleague Martin Buchheit on team sports / soccer / football, where he was explaining how that’s really the only key help from a VO2max standpoint for soccer players. Just like @Phil says, its what you have to do after many many hills, its often the case in close football matches, where the repeated sprint ability becomes important as you approach 90min of play. Here too is where we think having a higher VO2max in soccer players may also be important - recovery between bouts.
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This is what my A race looks like. A lot of this is rutted double track and technical single track too. Here in the mountains of Colorado, all our riding is climb for a while then descend for a while and then do it again. Haha. I feel like more sustained sweet spot workouts are probably good ones to do on the trainer. I only get out for 1 long ride a week, with a two year old and a wife who is training for her own race too.
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That’s a pretty lumpy profile! Not a flat road to be seen. Doing the tempo and threshold workouts would be the keys in addition to building a really robust aerobic fat-burning system! When’s the event?
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Ha, yep, that’s what riding is like here. Not like Wisconsin or gravel nationals which are pretty flat by comparison.
This is why I wanted to make sure y’all thought that the regular all road plan was catered towards this kind of racing.
This event is next week and I was already doing another plan when I signed up for my trial for Athletica so I’m more looking at the future. Based on the plan it gave me when I said the race was a few weeks away, I don’t think Athletica is set up to look at the training you’ve been doing and jump in when your event is close. So I plan on starting a new plan for my next event after this one is over.
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That makes sense. It takes a bit for Athletica to really understand you and your schedule.
Good luck in your event!
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Thank you for the feedback on the original question – which I – as a athletica.ai newbie/planning customer – was also going to ask.
Related to that the one difference I see between road and gravel races are “unsteadiness”
I.e., my gravel-race efforts never see steady effort, instead they go up and down all over the place all the time. Here’s a a recording of my last race first 100 km 1ith 1000 m of elevation (bike broke after 100 of planned 150 km):
How does one/athletica.ai tackle this “never in one zone” issue?
Really good question. My gravel race files look like that too. (Bummer about your bike, though!)
Generally, I find that gravel races come down to consistent tempo/ threshold efforts. You have to be able to ride in these zones for most of the day. You can’t burn too many matches in the beginning, for example, attacking up a hill since you’ll pay for it later in the race.
So we roll with what Athletica plans: Lots of threshold and tempo work since that’s exactly what we do in races. I recently did gravel nationals in Minnesota, and the race was defined by the several-mile climbs. That’s where the threshold work comes in. You do most of the race in your tempo zone so doing a lot of tempo work (twice a week) is critical.
Does that make sense?
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Yes:-)
My question is: going beyond that, how do we accomodate/prepare for the high(er) variability index of the Gravel riding?
That’s probably the “simple” version of my question;-)
Maybe we don’t… or should we?
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To prepare for the highly stochastic nature of gravel racing, we need to do the long endurance rides, tempo/threshold workouts, and VO2max (30/30s) to create a well-rounded athlete who is durable enough to withstand all the pedaling challenges. So by doing the intervals and long rides, we are fully preparing for gravel racing.
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