Apologies, I’m sure I’ve seen a post similar to this somewhere but I can’t find it.
I’ve recently switched my plan from a middle distance tri one to full distance, however the length of my ride and run at the weekends isn’t nearly long enough for this.
I’d expect at least 1 ride of around 6 hours and 1 run of 3 hours… However over a 10 week period I’ve seen nothing over 4.5 and about 2.
I get that the total volume for the week is limited by it being a mid volume plan, but surely hitting these distances/times are important not only physically but mentally and for nutrition testing purposes?
Interested to know others opinions and whether there is a reason for this? It’s genuinely one of the only things I can fault with the plans
The plan is conservative in regards those long rides/runs, although it does adapt to what you do or don’t do.
I’ve done 3 IM triathlons using athletica now with mid volume plan. What I’ve done is to think about which weekends I’d like to extend the long rides and runs. Then I extend those even when Athletica is asking only 4:45 long ride or 2hr run.
Listen to the podcast@Prof had with Gordo Byrn. It’s full of golden nuggets on how to train for long distance - highlighting the importance of having recovery protocol in place.
I’ve been using this philosophy as I prep for the IM Worlds. I’ve slowly build up my volume to cover a lot of distance during the weekend: this Saturday-Sunday I did about 70% of IM distance with swim-bike-run on Saturday and double run on Sunday. It’s not on original plan but I’ve moved things around to fit my own individual plan. Because it’s more load condensed in two days, next week I’m getting overtraining warnings, which are a great reminder for me to take it easy and recover.
I would note one thing though: I think it is far more important to stay consistent through many months than do one or two big weekends. So keep ticking off the shorter bike and runs and extend if you can and if you have recovery dialed in. Recovery: 1. Quality sleep 2. Quality nutrition with high protein and healthy fats 3. Mental health. 4. Few days no running and focus on muscle/joint care if injury prone.
Hope this helps plan your training for your next big goal!
MJ
Thanks @Marjaana that’s great advice. I was planning to do the same, carefully building the mileage up. I did a 75 mile ride on Saturday and a 17 mile run on Sunday so I know, all being well, I’m close to the distances I want.
However this I feel is the limitation of the AI right now. It should be suggesting this kind of build up and then altering it based on how you feel/recovery etc surely?
I shouldn’t need to go and look at other training plans to judge how those weekends should look like or follow a plan that doesn’t suit the race.
I THINK (Prof / Marjaana pls correct me if I’m wrong) that scrolling forward doesn’t show the true schedule for any given week as the plan scales AS / AFTER you complete training. E.g. what I see as a 2.5 hour ride looking forward may be a 4hr ride based on what I do between now and then.
And then for the max distances, if you get to the 4.5-hr session and they still don’t feel long enough you can choose to go longer - but keep in mind per the algorithm you might not NEED to do so.
I’m on the medium bike plan though I ride ultra distance. My A event this year was July, and 2,126km.
In the build up I had six rides of duration longer than 6 hours. You are right that they help mentally, sorting out equipment, and nutrition and clothing options etc. But they do not assist your fitness in my 14 year opinion. If anything your fitness drops after long rides / events due to the extended recovery necessary.
Thus I would say do not worry if your planned rides don’t go above around 5 hours or so. Mixed with the higher intensity work these are sufficient from a fitness and endurance point of view. Do plan in the occasional longer ride but do not see that ride as training but more as finessing bike fit, eating, drinking and getting your head in the right mindset etc.
Correct… makes it difficult for those entering Athletica to see the value and we get the review/feedback as @jockefc23 alludes to. But do the work consistently, build the fitness progressively, and your longer duration sessions will magically appear in your plan…
@paul and @Marjaana, my longest run session is never going over 1:45. In the message above and the podcast about Marjanna’s WC Nice (congrats), you mention that the run session could be longer. I do build up, and I am at 16 miles right now. I think the plan should be adjusted. In the worst case, could it propose a morning and an afternoon run, or is there new research indicating that running less than 2 hours is the best for Ironman?
Hey @Jerome
Thank you!
I’ll give my two cents on this and I am sure @Prof will chime in as well.
This is where everyone needs to use common sense. Injury rate being highest in running (something like 60-70% of runners are injured at some point of their training year!), it is extremely important that one takes a conservative approach.
I’ll share what I did during my build:
“Twice a day” approach
.Increased the duration of “Run Off The Bike”
Increase frequency of runs instead of focusing on a super long run .
Change things up: Athletica has you running on tired legs on Sundays. Sometimes I wanted to get that long run in on fresher legs so I swopped it to Saturday .
Context: Running is my weakest leg in triathlon. I tend to suffer from plantar fascitiis, and need to be careful not to overdo it. Obviously running is something I need to work on. I did all my run sessions outdoors (except few HIIT runs) in Houston heat (to tap into the heat adaptation benefits) which of course brought much more stress into the system. For example, my longest run was 28K in the heat. In the beginning of the summer, I struggled to run 20K because of the heat was zapping me. My overall run volume was low -30-56K/week. I think higher volume here would see me approach another gear, but being that Nice bike course was so demanding, I decided to spend much more time on the bike.
My philosophy was 1. alternate Key sessions between long ride + run (longish 45-60mins off the bike) 2. Long run (and I used either double runs or one long run in the heat). All the elements of a great plan is already there - make small tweaks as you see needed - whether they are longer long runs, or longer off the bike rides, you know your context the best.
If I were to do anything differently in a cooler environment, it would be to do 3-4 hr bike followed by 15-20k run.
From programming stand point - I did see my long runs extend as I was able to put in a few weeks of long runs - although I would not see those in the plan when I first generated it. They will come.
Although I didn’t do very long runs over 30K in this build, I was able to pick up the pace at the end of my marathon - because I hadn’t overbiked and stayed smart in the beginning of the run. Pacing your day in my opinion is way more important than having run those 30K+ runs (but context always first). Did you listen to the podcast we did with Matt Fitzgerald about pacing? It was excellent & you should get the book!
Extend your runs when you feel like you can handle it safely. Frequency always most important, but super long run (30K+) is not always necessary. Add length to your Run Off The Bike. Those would be my three take aways.
Let me know if you have any thoughts about how to tweak your plan.
Hi @Jerome ,
I’ve had a look at your plan and settings. To me I feel it should be letting the leash out on you more for those long runs however it’s probably something to do with your user-time constraints OR the max hours you’ve set into your plan. I’ve ask our backend team to take a look and we’ll get back to you.
In the meantime, @Marjaana gives good advice. The total weekly volume of running should be your barometer versus any maximal long run. Your current volume looks really good. Try to keep increasing that number by a few miles each week but do it more by frequency of running over any big long run. Have a listen to the @cmaloney podcast where she describes her success with this strategy.
Best,
Paul
Thank you for responding over the WE. I agree, and I already apply most of these. Time constraints and travel/jet lag make things more hectic while enabling me to explore new territory, which is motivating! I am in Poland for two weeks, which is changing my plan, and the easiest thing is to run!
@Marjaana, I have had plantar fasciitis for almost two years related to hip alignment. I realign my hip virtually all the time before running, and it is a game changer. It is a simple exercise part of my warm-up routine (DM me if you want more details). In my club, we also crowd-source a blog on Plantar. Check it out. There are possibly other ideas to glance at. About Plantar Fasciitis - Silicon Valley Triathlon Club
Amazing! Thank you for the tips! I am 100% certain my PF also is linked to SI issues and high stress. Please share your WU routine, I would love to see what you do.
Pelvic Correction: R foot down, left knee up so that it is towards midline and your hip is flexed past 90 degrees. Place your right hand on your left thigh, just above the knee and push into it with a traction (upward force) with the heel down and toes up. At the same time, press your right foot into the ground so you feel your right glute working. Do 5 x 5 sec.
Bilateral Abduction: Bring both knees up so that your hips are flexed past 90 degrees. Place both hands on either side of your knees and press into your knees as they press back out, not allowing any movement. Do 5x5 sec.
Bilateral Adduction: Bring both knees up and place your fists together and between your knees. Squeeze your fists for 5x5sec.
Tip
Keep up your diaphragmatic breathing throughout. Do no hold your breath!
These are great - I’ve had to do similar due to low back and hip issues. Similar is to lie with knees bent feet on the floor, do a bridge, and see which direction your hips are off balance (not parallel with floor). Let’s say your right side pelvis is lower, then:
Lift your right leg, place a foam roller horizontally between your legs (in this case meaning left leg below the roller and right leg on top) hold roller in place with hands and squeeze legs into the roller, meaning pressing up with left and down with right. Great SI adjustment.