Zones, analytics off? And then some

I’m on a trial period and had the AI Coach set up a training plan for me for a middle distance duathlon. Connected to Garmin and let it sync previous workouts. Did half of the test workouts, missed the possibly most important ones (5k all out, FTP), because reasons, and family logistics…

Since a sick leave in Nov-Dec my body has not been able to cope with hard intensity interval sessions, so if the period from then onward is what is used for setting up the plan, suppose that skews it. But here goes: the zones are weird, in spite of my entering threshold values (from actual tests). Lots of workouts for the first period had me work out in what I refer to as zone 1, or zone 2 according to how Athletica has me down. Maybe a smart move to keep me going really easy, not sure, it just feels too easy. I am used to thinking easy runs are sub VT1, which is top of zone 2 in my thinking, middle of 3b in Athletica.

And then I get something like this:

First of all, it’s a very short run at a very easy pace and HR. My VT1/LT1 is 130, LT2 150. Goal HR and pace feels veeery slow. The coach is also off on avg pace, what is up with that? And an FTI of 93 when doing a zone 2 run - does that make sense? I guess what I am asking is whether others have had similar experiences, and, from the Athletica team, whether this is by design and I’m just not getting it or if there is something weird going on.

The above is just one example of how I struggle with figuring out whether the algorithms and whatnots under the hood here really understand me. So is this the case, or is it me not getting it, or should I perhaps come up with feature requests to be able to add more data manually? The latter would include test data such as LT1/2 etc, as well as which days I would prefer to do what (again, family logistics, home office days etc).

Sorry, feels like I’m rambling all over the place, but hopefully I manage to get something meaningful across. For the record, I have been enjoing the experience with a “coach” to provide feedback and getting a (continually, responsively) customised training plan. My Garmin watch agrees, as the easy sessions interspersed with tempo and brief vo2 work has moved me out of strained status into productive, and my body is also starting to cooperate, adjust, adapt, and IMPROVE! All over, I am very likely a paying user when the trial ends toward the end of the month.

EDIT: I see the workout stats were impacted by my attempting to get a new training plan going, which turned this into an ad-hoc rather than planned workout.

2 Likes

Hei paa deg Halvor,
haaper du har en fin helg i Oslo :smiley:

Thanks for trialing, and hope you’ll keep training with us.

Your training zones may be off because you didn’t do the 5K TT, it also sounds like since your sick leave you haven’t been able to do hard efforts. So perhaps you are correct - there are not real good efforts in the system to optimally calibrate your zones. Your test that you used to manually insert your threshold, is it an old one or a recent one?

Nothing wrong with going nice and easy as you return from illness.

The AI coach is not perfect and I’ve also noticed some discrepancy in the feedback, he/she is missing on average pace etc. FTI 93% does NOT make sense (unless your set threshold is absolutely wrong) but in this case I think it is mentioning 93% because it has your average pace wrong at 4:59 min/km. Not knowing your threshold pace, this could actually be correct…? You can perhaps check it yourself?
If 4:59min/km is not 93% of your treshold pace, please send screenshots here and we can check if there is a bug.

Once you have your 5KTT done, your run pace profile should make more sense, as well as you get going and keep ticking boxes, the system learns to know you. Also note, that as you tick off your training, the system changes and adapts your workouts towards the demands of your goal race/event. This is sometimes missed with new athletes. They look at the program for example searching for the long runs and only see 16k as the longest run to prep for marathon. What they don’t know yet, is that when they execute their plan, the plan then learns how much the athlete can do, and adds more load as they go. So the first plan that is generated is not like static plan off the internet.

Sorry my ramble.

Happy to hear you are seeing improvements already.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Happy to help out!
Ha det bra! :norway:
MJ

2 Likes

Terve, @Marjaana :smiley: Greetings from Oslo to TX. Thanks for responding!

Despite hailing from Norway, I am not by any stretch a Blu or an Ingebrigtsen. From my test in October, my threshold pace was around 4:30/km. Figured that might have slowed down somewhat over these last few months of less training. (That test found LT1 at 135, LT2 at 150, and an HR max at 172, fwiw.)

Funny enough, the new plan I added yesterday had me do a 5K TT today! Seems to have normalised things somewhat. 5K pace at 4:14 fits in pretty good and surprised me positively.

Still getting some strange feedback, though? Admittedly, I did execute the warm-up strides as 8x50m averaging at a 3:00/km pace or so, but they account for very little of the total time and distance of this 10K/50min workout, and while HR wise stayed in zone 4 given the short work period(s), power wise they might have climbed to zone 7. The 5K was HR wise at 150-160, 87-93% of max, upper zone 4 and zone 5 in the Athletica 7-zone chart. I figured a 5K TT was about pushing to the limit? (And I didn’t even push it 100%, figuring I should aim for a pace that would allow me to finish without really having much of a reference to know where to start!).

Last thing, the training plan seems to be stuck at fine-tuning (warning), and the coach is greyed out. Been like that for a couple of days.

1 Like

Wowzers, @halvor ! :norway: :star_struck: 4:14min/km is pretty darn good! Veldig bra!
Sometimes a little break does us all good, great example here.

Yes, the AI Coach summary was maybe unneccesarily snarky at you. It is not perfect by any means, and I will report back to our team.

I’ll also ask @Prof to have a look at your profile as I think there may be a bug (seen others report the same).

What’s your A race?

Hope you stay with us and please use this forum to if something is off. We are here to help you iron out any problems.

Ha det bra,
MJ
PS. Jeg bodde i Oslo for 10 aar. Tenker det er fint i Oslo naa med vaar rett rundt hjoernet. :heart_eyes:

2 Likes

Definitely something buggy here, yes. Still get the


and no feedback from the greyed out coach :face_holding_back_tears:

No races planned for the time being. I had an Oslo Tri intention and took up coached swimming again but simply found the activity too demanding given the situation with my exhausted body. (And trust me, I would need some serious effort in the water to be up for even a sprint distance.) Also need to increase mileage slowly to know that my knees can be trusted for more than 10K - long story… Aim, thus: get in shape and avoid injuries, get to a situation where I am confident that I can cope with racing. In which case a HM would be on my list.

Yourself?

1 Like

I also think the analytics is off since the upgrade to them. I’ll admit I push slightly higher sometimes than I should but I don’t think to the extent the AI coach is telling me.

For example, I did a 70 min steady run run this morning, average 7:59 per mile instead of the planned 8:10 - yet my load was 88 vs the planned 54.

Something just feels off… Or the coach is actually now working like it always should have been??

3 Likes

@halvor we are looking into this. Please hang tight.

Sounds like it’s smart to listen to your body and slow into racing long term. :+1:t2:
I’m racing 70.3 Calgary this year and add some fun stuff as I go. Nothing extraordinary this year, just aim to stay healthy and build fitness for next winter :snowflake: (aiming to do more Cross-Country Ski races) for American Birkiebeiner and Birken :norway: can’t wait to train with our ski plans.

Will notify you when the problem is fixed

MJ

Could you please check now @halvor ?
MJ

Thanks for following up! (On a Sunday!!) I got an email saying the plan was updated three hours ago. Logged on, and still have the warning and the inactive coach, I’m afraid :man_shrugging:t3:

1 Like

No problem. I’ve been sick and thus not training and for once kids don’t have any games this weekend, so I don’t quite know what to do with myself. Hence - work! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Is AI coach active in ANY pages? Can you screen shot the specific pages it is not active?

Things are improving here :+1: The coach returned upon login the following day. Today it seems my zones are adjusted, looks more right to me, and also reflected in workouts in the training plan.

Question: For running, critical pace, when hovered over, says threshold pace. Those are two distinct paces to me, critical pace being further toward vvo2max pace, whereas threshold pace is at LT2. Which is intended here?

Birken, as in here in Norway? In just about one year, iow? Let me know if you have some time to kill in Oslo while here!

1 Like

I wonder, now that resting HR is now getting captured whether it will feed into HR zones. So that HR zones can use things like HRR %.

1 Like

I am glad things are settling down. :star_struck:Could you share screenshots @halvor ?

Yes the one and original Birken in Norway. :norway: for sure I would spend some time in my favourite city in the world!

:globe_showing_americas: