This was the episode I’ve been waiting for. No matter where I look, there seems to be this “You need to down 100g of carbs per hour even if only out for a couple of hours”. How do they do that without rotting their teeth amongst other things?
Almost all my training I don’t eat during them. I’ll eat before and I’ll eat after (normal breakfast / dinner).
Even during ultra endurance events I don’t eat that much and not every hour. We will often go 3-4 hours between feeds without issues. But we make sure to have a hot carb rich meal such as Singapore fried rice before heading into the night where food stops may be none existent. But that’s just once in maybe 16-18 hours of moving time.
On a cycling event in 2013 I went 350km without eating, simply because I couldn’t having down some undiluted black currant mix which shut down my stomach. That’s the extreme end, but shows how far you can go without food intake.
I recognise the blood sugar thing, and when at my peak, I can go about 8 hours without taking on any carbs, before I feel that kick in., and a stop to get some sugar in. But more typically it’s at the 3-5 hour mark before that happens. I’ve done 5 hour events on a single Cadbury’s crème egg to cover the last hour. During a longer event I might do 4 hours on a crossiant because there’s nowhere else open in the early hours. Energy levels just fine.
I’ll agree that an average of 30-50g of carbs per hour works just fine, and often less. This is even for many days in a row, as long as you top up some point in the evening before a sleep or overnight stage.
I don’t follow a low or high carb diet, but I do ride fasted almost all the time. Just a preference whilst out.
Thanks @Phil … glad you liked. Hours ago I finished a Training Science Podcast recording with the lead author of that study, Philip Prins, and after my research to prepare along with the talk itself, I’m confident that the industry completely missed the mark on this one. When performance matters, the body actually prefers fat as the predominant fuel and drives everything towards that (body gets more ATP per unit of fuel burnt, fat v CHO). Even in the Magnus Ditlev study simulation for his world record attempt, despite his 140g/h approach, he continues to burn more fat the longer he goes. If his body wanted the carbs, it would burn them and not waste them. The take home and good news for optimizing your performance is all you need to concern yourself with is preventing hypoglycemia relative to your own set point, which will differ depending on what diet you’re adapted to. In everything you describe above, it sounds like your set point is pretty low and your body can defend its glycemia well and with very little supplementation. That’s a superpower.
It gave me greater confidence to keep following a low carb approach (~50g/day) without impacting my training performance.
There were a couple of references to fasted sessions that @Prof presecribed @Marjaana, I generally do my morning sessions after a pre-workout but before breakfast. I’d be interested in hearing more about everyday nutrition strategies and fasted training.
That’s what the science supports in my opinion. I put a red box around the important info from this recent study. The point is that it takes time to adapt to this. But as shown, blood glucose and ketones stabilize after about 4 weeks. So once you reach this point you have ultimately achieved metabolic flexibility (body is good at burning fat or carbs). This makes your performance bulletproof and your recovery optimal.
That’s a great idea to talk more about nutrition strategies and fasted training. First, I’d highly recommend The Real Meal Revolution cookbook as not only a good cookbook but it’s a good resource on how to manage your nutrition.
Second, what specific kinds of questions do you have so we can dig into them on the podcast?
Thanks @SimpleEnduranceCoach. We put so much effort into our training and (hopefully) recovery, but the information around nutrition is frustratingly complex and contradictory.
Key questions for me are:
Supplements for endurance training - in particular creatine, beta-alanine, glutamine (recommended as critical for recovery)
Pre-workouts and protein powders - aimed more at weightlifters but I’ve found them useful to get started in the morning and hit protein goals. Do they have a place? What is their value? What should I look for in them?
Low-carb vs high-carb for everyday athletes - I’m training 7-10 hours a week, not really looking to lose weight (wouldn’t mind either) and won’t be running any 2:30 marathons anytime soon. The most recent study seems to indicate low-carb is sustainable with endurance training - but a lot of other information online (i can hear the coaches sigh now) recommend high carb diets.
What are the good/best ratio of macros (protein/carb/fat) to target (without being obsessive about weighing every morsel)?
Does timing of meals matter? Do I need to have protein within 40minutes of training?
How does all of this fit in with fasted training? Does that help with fat adaption?
My diet priorities are planning my nutrition around having a family meal at dinner (usually a ~200g meat, veg/salad, little carbs). Although kids sports make it challenging. I then try to hit the rest of my goals at breakfast/lunch.
I’m no longer confident about the race high. Perhaps the ‘high’ is just a relative amount that will differ depending on the individual’s level of adaptation… the very cool realization for me, after so many years believing that the purpose of carb supplementation is to preserve your muscle glycogen level, is that that’s not what you’re doing when you supplement with carbs from a session execution standpoint. You’re preserving your blood glucose. That’s what matters at the end of the day. The brain’s interpretation of the body’s blood glucose status. So long as this is in check you can perform to your ability (notwithstanding other key factors like heat, hydration, etc).
Actually, it might make sense… but am I wrong or was there research that indicated that having glycogen reserves almost always depleted increased systemic inflammation levels, slowed recovery and increased stress on the body?
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At the end of the day, it comes down to your training, and your abilities are reflected in your performance profile (i.e., below). Therefore Athletica focusses on the right objective for you.
I understand that despite the lower muscle and liver glycogen content, the LcHf Group had a higher TTE than HCLF! SO a minimal dose of Carbohydrates during exercise would be enough to maintain a good intensity! (70% VO2 Max is a 70.3 Race Pace…like Sweetspot I think..)
Now I follow a Low Carb Periodized taking 40/50 gr Carbo before Intense sessions but remaining the rest of the day in LOW CARB (100/150 total) and I feel very good! I resist the intensity (I add caffeine) and I’m also losing… (Maybe it’s glycogen) But in any case I feel much more Stable on the bike while before I had honey sandwiches, gel bars… it was a Rollercoaster! Now I have just 3/4 sweets to avoid drops and stops!
3 hours NO CARB only a piece of bread and Peanut bitter
