I took on the pretzel today in Zwift. So much for an “easy” z2 work. Still kept my HR mostly under control with an average just above what I consider my z2 target.
Two big things for me:
Nice one, I’ve always wanted to try this one…looks hard!
It’s hard, especially when you can’t go to the little ring!
The first climb is the hardest because you get through the EPIC KOM and then you have another climb that is like 12% or higher the whole time. I could have made it quicker, but I ran out of gears
My (original) ride had me going for over 3 hours, so I looked for segments that were longer so I didn’t have any decision making.
Today is my 4 year anniversary of using and training with Athletica!!
A few fun facts:
Love love love these insights! Permission to use your testimonials in socials, @cindy? Amazing picture too!
Thanks! Yes of course 
That’s awesome Cindy!
One of my Athletica athletes was wondering if he was going to get 30/30s every week. I get it a lot as well. Does this workout change throughout the training programs?
It’s never changed for me. The system always defaults to a 30/30 interval. If there was any weakness in the way the AI operates, it’s this.
You can go in and swap to a 40/20 and there is one option typically for a multi-minute interval.
I started creating my own intervals because I can’t imagine the science says to only do 30/30’s and no other variation.
By all means try to use the Workout Wizard to get the variety you are after. A bit of science that suggests short intervals are often (but not always) superior.
First of my longer events as I return to distance coming out of the winter. It’s actually a route check of a brevet I am running next weekend. I did set off with one of my event helpers but they were not feeling well and turned back after a couple of hours. Rain for the first 5 hours and headwind for the second. One of the things I look for is that there isn’t a massive decline in heart rate later on. Although there is a decline my pacing seems fairly steady over the 11 hours.
HRV says limit intensity today. I always found HRV after longer outings of interest.
Form is always amusing
Prof…
Just to clarify, I’m not arguing against short intervals. You’re 100% correct that it’s showing to be the best option. My comment was more on the program basically relying on 30/30 as the primary VO2 workout option. As you mention, you have to go into the Workout Wizard if you want another option because, it’s always going to propose a 30/30.
I did do a quick look and found this article by Matt Fitzgerald (who I saw you announced joined Athletica.ai) talking about the different VO2 workouts: What Is the Best Vo2 Max Workout? | TrainingPeaks
The article looked at three different VO2 Workouts:
We’ve now seen three good candidates for designation as the best workout for increasing VO2max. So, which one truly is the best: variable-intensity intervals, 30-15 intervals, or decreasing intervals? You probably knew all along that the question posed in the title of this article was a trick question, and indeed it is.
A key part of his conclusion was this:
The question addressed in this article also assumes that, once the most effective workout for increasing VO2max has been identified, athletes should do that workout exclusively going forward. But this would be inadvisable. Whether your goal is to increase your VO2max, your lactate threshold, your endurance, or any other facet of overall fitness, it’s best to use a variety of workout formats to get the job done.
And that’s all I’m saying. Always defaulting to a 30/30 option, even if the science says it might be slightly better, has it’s own downsides.
And as always, I say this as someone committed to the program for the year and just want to see it get even better than it already is.,
Thanks @MattS06 … agree and we will work towards that in the future.
Hey Matt, I love the enthusiasm of your posts about vo2max workouts. There are so many ways to skin the cat and 30/30 is just one.
You make a good point about variability. I’ve been using Athletica for 2.5years and religiously try to get my 30/30 done. There is something about the fact that you have to get some repeated work done, and sometimes it needs to get a bit boring. I think I could have done this earlier on, but I’ve just started to do 40/20. I think I am ready for a new kind of stimuli and 40/20s get me a little more excited than 30/30s do. I also think that athlete profiling (like fiber type dominance) also plays into what type of HIIT works best for you as an athlete, in addition to a whole list of other factors. As someone who was overtrained, I would say the shorter intervals are probably more suited for me - as I tend to recover from them quicker than longer intervals at Vo2max.
I think maybe we could do an educational blog or video about how to chose a HIIT format that could be done for different types of athletes, @Prof ?
@MattS06 Have you taken the HIIT science course? It’s amazing, highly recommend!
MJ
I am very interested in reading about phenotype and ideal vo2 intervals. As I recall, fast twitch types tend to benefit from long hiit more than short hiit? @Prof I prefer short hiit, and recover well from them. However, my power lifting and rugby past gave me a great fast twitch base.
Speaking of which… S&C session today. Didn’t get the sessions done this weekend. Just wasn’t in the books.
Hi @Jesse… would recommend having a read of this article for a start.
Excellent read! For the practical application %ASR/APR, what is the percentage that short hiit are prescribed at?
You can roughly work that out from the APR curve on your power profile.
A quick calc looking at mine suggests
short hiit is about 22-66% of APR
Long hiit is about 6-22% of APR.
I’m definitely a slow twitcher, a snail could out sprint me, and deal with long hiit well.
I see that now! Thanks for pointing that out Phil.
My immediate take away is that I’ve been doing the 30/30’s too hard. I have the power set at my 30’s power (according to the curve, that hasn’t been updated since the power profile in December) and am doing it 21-28 times…
Comes back to the idea of doing enough to improve, while prioritizing recovery. Thursday I’ll try out the power suggested by the APR curve and see how it feels.
I think I’m diving too far into the weeds here, so please someone drag me out.
With live mWR available, I’ve been hitting <5% in my intervals (short hiit and threshold), and usually ~<1%. This is because I’m trying to work hard enough to get my HR up into the same zone as power ( in later the intervals). But they can be quite challenging. What’s the “you’ve done enough” mWR threshold?
