Run workouts - Plan metrics seem at odds with each other

Training & Coaching
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@Prof or @Marjaana
I was hoping that either of you could take a look at the Run Workouts associated with my current Duathalon plan. It seems to me the Pace metrics are way too hard for me to accomplish and the Heart Rate metrics seem to be low if I try and follow those. Meaning, if I try and up the Pace to come closer to the Pace suggested, but still not at the Pace suggested because it is just not feasible for me as they stand, then my heart rate is way above what the plan is calling for. It just appears that the two should be better matched than what they are and since they are not, I am struggling with which one to follow or attempt to follow that is. I did a testing week that included biking and running and I am more than happy, well maybe I should say I would do a testing week again if needed (LOL), if that would help.

Thanks!

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Hey @fekieser
Sorry late reply, I’ve been off the grid for Thanksgiving . Will have a look at your profile and get back to you by Monday :turkey::blush:

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Thank you! No problem. Just wanted someone to look at it as it just seems the two metrics don’t really line up with each other. And, Thursday’s run was the first day I have actually been able to fully follow the workout by heart rate so I have improved but the pace values are just way too hard. Thanks again for looking!!

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@Marjaana @Prof
I thought instead of creating a new thread, I use this one as it seems the same for me.

I did the test week, but the pace and heartrate just do not match. Running 5:04 to 5:45 in Level two with less than 143 bpm - not yet.

This also means that I never satisfy my AI coach if running in the suggested zones as they just do not match the distance/paces.

Thanks for checking

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Hey there,

I am not sure I understand. Your zone 2 target HR is 143 or under? You are saying if you run at 5:04 -5:45, your heart rate is higher than that.

My first trouble shooting question is where is your heart rate data coming from:

  1. Chest strap
  2. Optical wrist based watch?

Second, what did you use for HR monitor when you did your 5K TT?

Let’s start with those :smiley: MJ

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Thats right, before I started with Atheltica I would have put me into 6:00 to 7:00 pace at this heart rate (Z2).

I use my FR265 all the time, I know chest would be better, but I do not have one.
And at my level of running I would not have considered one, especially as a lot of reviews arent that bad (trusting DC rainmaker :wink: )

Thanks

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Unfortunately the wrist based optical hr measurements are still far away from the gold standard chest strap, so if you want to use hr to measure your intensity the best way is to get a chest strap.

It is hard to match HR data that is off by as much as 10-20 beats with your own “feel” so AI coach is going to give you hard time…

in your case, I would trust your feel and go by the feel RPE instead of your heart rate.
If you are able to nose breath or talk full sentences comfortably, then you know you’re at the right zone 2 intensity

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You can get your plan to prescribe the workouts by pace - make sure you have recent 5k tt done so your threshold pace is correct, then go to your connections - Garmin and ask athletica to prescribe by pace.

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Then you just adjust your effort by RPE

Hope this helps,
Mj

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Thanks for the summary, but I just want to understand a few things

In Z2 - I can definitly talk 2 sentences without problems and I would say even more, so the bpm seems fine but with the pace of 5 minutes per km, I am not able to talk at all.
So this athelete zones just do not match. Now, do they get adjusted at a certain point as the trainings are not matching the expectation of Athletica ?

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If I would now change to pace as the tool athletica is using to measure my effort, I would definitly be way tooo fast for a Z2 as I normally run a 6minutes pace at around 143bpm

The Garmin Connect Training plans were not that far away from bpm and pace as athletica is right now. Even though I did not like the training plans from Garmin (different story) but when I did them based on pace they did match to the heart reat and vica versa - Z2 or Z3 where quite close.

So even if the watch is not the gold standard, it should not be that far off as it is for me right now. Have a look at this tests Garmin Forerunner 265/265S In-Depth Review: AMOLED in Two Sizes! | DC Rainmaker and we are not talking about 10 to 20 bpm off.

For me, who has imported all the Garmin workouts, using the watch for years now, and did the 5k tt last week - this does not match. If it is off all the time, well, the table should be off the same way. But it is not that in-accurate as stated to justify this.

I am happy to let you have a look at my last 2 weeks (as I just moved to the paid plan) to find the problem, but for me it is not the watches heart rate monitor but more some “magic-logic” which is off and it would be nice to figure this out.

This is the 5k tt summary (part of it)

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and I am not sure if my athlete zones and this 5k TT should match, for me it does not really, but let me know.

Also I did my last half-marathon in 2:17 and my goal is 2:14 this year in May - as I know my limits and I plan for the long game in running :wink: and move my limits slowly while I am getting even older.

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Hey @herbert
what was your 5KTT time?

There’s obviously a faulty reading somewhere. Could you please send me a DM here with your email registered with Athletica and I will see what I find for you.

Thanks,
MJ

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This is my 5K TT session and the information from my garmin about thresholds.
I am using Garmin for some years now, so I assume they do know quite much about me already :grinning_face:

Anyhow, DM is on its way. We gonna find the bug :beetle:

Thanks