Athletica told me that I am at risk for overtraining but then increased my upcoming workouts

As the title says, I got a message this morning that I am at risk for overtraining. I was starting to feel that myself, so I cut some time from today’s SE session.

I checked my training calendar just now and noticed that Athletica has significantly increased my VO2 max session tomorrow. This seems absolutely backwards to me! It says I’m headed into overtraining, I agreed and cut a workout back, and then the AI immediately spiked my next workout up to compensate for the reduction it had suggested just hours before.

I definitely want to reduce the load a little bit this week to prevent overtraining, but it seems like the AI is going to fight me on that. Thoughts?

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Hello!
Do you pay attention to HRV at all? That’s a good way to monitor your fatigue.
The AI gets on a schedule within your training block and will increase the load.
However, you have the right idea if you’re feeling a bit toasty to back off and take some easy rides.
I hope that helps!

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Yes, I track HRV and mine is trending lower than usual. That’s one of the things that tipped me off.

What’s the point of the AI if it’s going to give advice one direction but then write the plan in a different direction? If my training load is already high enough, why change that workout?

What’s even stranger is that it amped up that vo2 workout, which then put the little “overtraining likely” checkmark on Thursday’s workout. So it added more load even though that made overtraining likely again later in the week.

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Hey @rctaylor157
Can I ask for more details please? I’m happy to have a look at your training plan to see what prompted the overtraining warning… may be a bug :beetle:
MJ

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The overtaining advice likely is due to your time limitations. The system is asking you to do more than you have time for.
But Marjaana will check to see if there’s something up!
As always, use your better judgement about taking some time off the schedule and get back to it when you’re feeling better.

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Hi @rctaylor157,

There is great feedback so far. IME, a state of overtraining is a decrease in performance due to inadequate recovery that occurs over a longer period of time. This is different than functional overreaching where an appropriate stress load is applied, the athlete recovers, there is a small incremental load and the process is repeated. Bits and pieces are added to the “bank”. AI coach is telling you that you might be headed there if something like your situation is repeated for many weeks. It’s conservative and keeps you on track. One workout won’t send you over the edge, but many workouts done when you are under recovered or sick or slightly injured will.

If you look at your 7-day recovery profile, are there many dips or rises over the last 6 weeks? Have you been recovering before you have been attempting HIIT sessions? If you feel a bit off or sluggish, @SimpleEnduranceCoach has the correct approach. I am kind of in the same situation today, and my son is home sick so I have no issues deleting sessions and using the workout wizard for easier alternatives because I want to optimize the benefit of HIIT when I’m 100 percent.

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Hey all, unfortunately it seems I was right because I got sick starting yesterday. I’ve likely been riding the line of under-recovered for a couple weeks now and it finally caught up to me right before the recovery week. Hopefully it passes quickly. Thank you for your advice!

Feel free to look at my plan if it would help identify any bugs.

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I had a similar thing. I got an initial warning message that my fitness was too high for the low volume plan, so I changed it to medium and the next morning was greeted with this warning:

  • Your overall (and bike specific) fitness is too low for this plan. You may want to consider changing to the low volume plan.

I was then less than impressed with the “support” advice, which was “… its unlikely that Athletica has got to know you that well yet. This is where feel in the beginning is pretty important. You should know intuitively what feels right from your experience. Trust that to start would be my advice”.

  1. I’m looking to AVOID training by feel and intuition - I want a more objective “coach”, which is why I’m trying Ai.
  2. Athletica AI has allegedly downloaded 2-3 years of my workouts from Strava (that failed) or Garmin (seems to have worked)…so it should actually “know me” pretty well.

I think this AI has been released before it is “finished” (which seems to be standard for most AI set-ups). We’re all still beta testing.

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Sorry to hear this @rctaylor157 hope you feel better soon. Be well before taking up training again.

There’s some nasty bugs going around.
MJ

Hello @SimonM
Thanks for giving Athletica a try.
Sorry it is not meeting your expectations.

I’ll try to explain what “go by feel” means.
But first,
When you start with Athletica, even though we pull your historical data, it doesn’t mean that Athletica knows exactly what you did, whether you were compliant with the plan, or what the plan was. Knowing you means “how well can you follow the plan”, and also, what “kind of athlete you are “ based on the tests during the second week “test week”. Many times new athletes skip the week because they don’t understand the value of it.
The warning “your fitness is too high/low”. This is a little bit tricky, because sometimes we are in between two levels and Athletica is asking for more training hours to keep the athlete progressing towards the goal race. Sometimes it is as simple as adjusting the weekly training hours in the settings. Sometimes we are already maxing out on what is realistically possible for us to train in terms of rest of the life. In that case I would turn the warning off from settings and keep doing your best with the time you have, or add a few more hours to your training week (settings).
Does that make sense at all?

Athletica adjusts your training as you go along with your training. Plan two months from now will look different in two months’ time depending what you do or don’t do.

Ok, so the feel & intuition thing. You want an Objective Coach, that’s great.
This ties into the point I was trying to make above. Athletica needs some time to know your potential so it doesn’t give some insane rides that are way beyond your fitness levels, which would of course lead to overreaching, injuries, illness and worst case scenario overtraining. Because we know athletes sometimes will do everything they can to “follow the plan” (myself included), we need to be sure Athletica knows the athlete and takes a conservative approach. Health always comes first.

If you feel like you could do a longer aerobic ride, or do couple of more interval efforts, go ahead and do those. If you feel like 3x7x30/30 was too much, then do a little bit less the next time. If you keep exhausting yourself and having to rest days after a hiit session, you’ve done it too hard. THIS is part of the feel, too.

We also know sometimes athletes ignore the signals that body and mind are sending them (feel and intuition), to comply with the plan. We could choose to avoid showing any warning signs (fitness too low/overtraining warning etc), and trust that the athletes will train by feel & intuition, but I think you’ve demonstrated here that sometimes athletes don’t want to do that.
Remember you have the option to turn these off in your settings.

AI can handle a lot of the data crunching, but ultimately your feel & intuition knows what you can handle much better than any AI, or a human coach. I would say a “get-to-know-you” period also applies to a human coach as well, where the two of you need to communicate frequently about your training and how it feels to you.

I hope this helps you understand the process better. Have a look around in your settings to individualize the settings to better suit your style, and don’t hesitate to reach out if you need help.

MJ

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Hi all
I had yesterday somthing similar. In the morning i run the 2 sessions prescribed in which i reported also my bad feelings. At evening i discovered that ai added a 1h 30’ run session with the alert of a risk of overtraining.

Other question parallel to this one:
For my profile is asked to made some short all out effort to complete properly my feauters. Why ai doesn’t create session at this scope when he knows it is necessary?

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Is a nice summary from Andrea.

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Not clear to me, sorry @Prato . A new session was created to same day after you ran twice already?

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A complete power or pace profile can only be built when an athlete does maximal short, intermediate and longer duration efforts. Sometimes our training doesn’t include all of these, and it is totally ok. :white_check_mark: When we train, we train to cope with the race day demands, not for a beautiful power graph, am I right? Yes, the AI coach needs this info to understand what kind of athlete you are and to keep your training intensity zones current. So it’s good to periodically to retest.

Because many people don’t particularly enjoy testing we don’t schedule the tests regularly, but you are welcome to re-test yourself when you see these messages from AI coach. We welcome you to try out Velocity indoor training platform where we guide you through both 20 min and short Critical power tests - I hear they are more enjoyable with me and @prof coaching you through them :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:)

Maybe it is a matter of us communicating this more effectively…? Repeat test workouts and schedule them when they fit in your schedule. Remember these are demanding all out efforts, so allow some recovery time after. Depending on your context, I would be inclined to not test monthly but perhaps every 2-3 months if you are putting in good consistent effort, and replace weekly HIIT session with a Critical power test.
If it asking for shorter 10-30s efforts, you could periodically just do those during your HIIT session and the chart will automatically detect new max values.

Hope this clarifies this?
MJ

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Hi @Marjaana
Yes that dai i had 2 run sessions that i did on thecearly morning both as request, no more or less load.
In the evening while i was going to sleep i noted a new run session of 1 hour on same day.
The situation was quite odd because i also reported that i was on a difficult days and i didn’t feel so powerful.
It was strange to me that ai add an important session while i alredy done others with no goid shape.

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Yes that should not happen. Could you please take screenshot if this ever happens and share in the bug reports so we can squish that bug :bug:
Which day this happened, and if any screenshots please share here for @Prof to take a look

Best, MJ

It happened last tuesday the 19th February. Unfortunately i already delated the run session added
Sometimes it happen. When i will have another case i will post on bug report.
Thank you @Marjaana

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Are you using the time availability? If you’ve set it to run a certain amount of time but then run less, the AI thinks you need another session to hit the goals you set in time constraints.

I ran into this with swimming - I’d set my parameters saying that I want to swim at least an hour, and if I swam for 45 minutes (less than an hour) it would create another session for me so that I could meet my “goal”. Just a thought!

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Hi @kimberg
I don’t think itvcould be this because yes i setted a maximum of 2h run on wednesday but AI still give me around 1h of session. So i do what it asks me, not less and that day was the same. I can think to your example in the event of it asks me 1h and i do 45min but this is not the case. The extra session was added during the day (and i setted to not made change on last 1 day…).
Ultimately i didn’t see other case of this issue.
Thank you!!!

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