I’m currently training for my next marathon with Athletica, after finally breaking the 3-hour barrier last year - also by using Athletica.
I am now targeting a sub 2.50 marathon, and I have a similar pattern in my block which leaves me confused. My longest runs are only 21 km (13.2 miles), and I only have them every few weeks. At the same time I have HIIT sessions reaching 20 km.
Therefore, I am wondering if I am missing something in my training plan, or if it is by design that the longest run reaches 21km? Mentally, it would be great to incorporate some 30k runs. In my last block, I just extended the 21 km runs to 30 km, but I would love for Athletica to give me these workouts rather than me incorporating them.
Hi @Graim,
Congrats on cracking 3h with Athletica
2:50 is a great next goal.
We get your question a lot. Ultimately the goal of Athletica is to slowly and progressively increase your fitness using the principle of consistency in your training. Note that your final build week even today is about 100km which is a decent run load. What we need to remember however is that Athletica is an adaptive, not a static plan. You’re more likely used to getting static plans where you know ahead of time what you’ll be doing. We really don’t. As you continue to follow the plan, and even push things out by 5% occasionally if you feel good, you’ll notice that Athletica lets out the leash. It knows you are fit, so it knows it can recommend you fatiguing more because it knows you’ll be able to withstand such training. I attach your current ‘leash’. If you stop training, the long run distance will get smaller. But if you stay consistent with training and even push things out a bit and appropriately, the leash is allowed to go higher, and your long run that you so desire will reveal itself to you. For example, long time user @cmaloney just posted about her personal best marathon performance. She too was on the mid volume marathon plan and her longest run week grew to 107 km, with a long run at almost 30km. Soooo… hope that helps. In a gist, stick with the plan as best you can, do all you can to stay healthy and injury free, and lets see what happens. Please keep us posted and good luck!
You can always override the longest run if you feel like it’s safe for you to do.
Here’s my personal thoughts and experiences with long runs over 30k
the risk of injury or illness increases when you run over 30k. You have to make a conscious decision whether it is worth taking in your own situation.
I’ve seen it on my own training and athletes that I have coached to marathons, that when we “want to run over 30k” because it will give us confidence that we can run close to marathon kms, we end up with 1. a niggle 2. We get sick 3. worst case injury.
Yes, a lot of great runners tick off long runs up to even 36k. But what we forget as everyday runners is that we don’t have the volume of total running in us. They can easily run 120k a week while we top at 50, 60, 70k at top weeks.
I know you are a very fit athlete. If you’ve been consistently logging big weeks of running, maybe you could do one longer run before your February marathon. In that case, just override the long run and extend where you think it’s appropriate for you.
iMHO frequency and total weekly volume is by far more important than the long run.
Frequent runs require proper recovery and some strength and mobility work to prevent injuries and aid recovery.
I know you will do great @Giuseppe85 ! Looking forward to your thoughts.
I understand what you say and I think that Long Ladder Run or Progressive Run are much more effective than 2 hours and 30 in Z2… But I would like to try to see what happens beyond those 30km… try all that time on the legs, the mind and the integration… even just once
However I increased to 3/4 strength and stretching sessions and it’s helping me a lot… I went from 50/60 hours to 85 of running a week
@Marjaana
just out of curiosity I wanted to show you that following a replan a LONG RUN >30km appeared in my MID Volume Marathon Plan. However, it is subsequently reduced to ensure a “Progressive overload”
What do you think (and @Prof ) is this due to? Don’t I have a high enough RUN FORM?
I still decided to block it because I’m interested in trying to train for 30km… then maybe I’ll reduce the workouts before and after… to avoid risking an injury
Interesting!
My thinking is that Athletica recognizes your ability to run longer, as you have consistently put in the work, and are ready for it. However, I think it is noticing high fatigue probably due to previous training. That’s my guess without having looked at your plan.
Great example of how Athletica, once it gets to know you allows a little more “leash” …
No, actually that 32km Prog Run appeared after a Replan, I saved it in the library and added it to my program because otherwise ATHLETICA would have shortened it to 24/26 as it has always done… I believe that certain “key” sessions must not be modifiable because for example with a view to the Marathon you need to do at least one 30km run, whether we are novices or expert Runners.
I see what you are saying about the demands of a marathon, and how long runs prepare your body to what is coming on the day of. Ideally, yes we would both have sufficient frequency and volume each week over longer time, AND few longer 28-32k runs to prepare us.
But we also have to think about the person in front of us; and I respectfully disagree that the long run should be “locked”. Someone who only runs 3 times a week and struggles to build up long run to over 25 k and then being pushed to 32k a few weeks from Marathon is risky. I would much rather coach that person to increase frequency and overall volume every week than pushing the 32K, and risk injury, illness or a massive fatigue that requires many days to recover from.
But for fit, healthy, experienced athletes, 32K is much more manageable. Go for it if you have the base for it
I have seen and experienced with many athletes that overall volume and frequency of runs, even if they are much shorter, prepare them well for a marathon.
I’d also highlight as we age those long runs just “hurt” a little extra. I’d much rather run little bit every day than 34k and having to take 2-3 days off. But that’s my personal opinion
How is your training for you upcoming marathon going @giuseppe?
MJ
I think it’s personal preference as to whether you do a run longer than 30 k for the marathon…I didn’t feel I needed to go over 30 km training for the Calgary Marathon last year, but I had built up my volume to 90 -100 km for the final build…I felt like I had enough load in my legs and a 28 km long run was enough for me…that being said, prior to using Athletica and about 20 years ago, I used to always include about two, 32 km runs leading up to my marathon’s. Those gave me some confidence for the races which I needed back then. But for context, I was probably training around 40-60 k/week. Just started my Boston Marathon Build and looking ahead I don’t have any long runs more than 21 km…but with my experience, it will most likely increase as I start completing the training plan…and will see if I end up doing anything over 30 k…
Yes it is probably as you say… gradually the volume increases even if sometimes it happens that if you do too many long runs it tends to decrease the volume to ensure a Progressive overload… and that is what happened to me in the past in the Triathlon Program
The program is going well! I feel strong and “adequately” charged/tired… my only complaint was that I would have preferred that the Aerobic Run decreases from 12 to 7 km for example and leaves the Long Run with a high Km because I consider them important… that’s all… in any case I will definitely try to do them longer than those planned, obviously trying to feel the body’s signals… which easily appear with running
